10.10.18

Justine Bateman Talks Her Latest Book, "Fame: The Hijacking of Reality"

Mining decades of experience, writer, director, producer, and actress Justine Bateman writes a visceral, intimate look at the experience of fame. Combining the internal reality-shift of the famous, theories on the public's behavior at each stage of a famous person's career, and the experiences of other famous performers, Bateman takes the reader inside and outside the emotions of Fame. The book, "Fame: The Hijacking of Reality," includes twenty-four color photographs to highlight her analysis.

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>>> HEY, EVERYONE. YOU'RE WATCHING BUILD SERIES IN NEW YORK CITY. OUR NEXT GUEST ROSE TO FAME AS MALLORY KEATON ON "FAMILY TIES" AND WENT ON TO STAR IN “MEN BEHAVING BADLY” AND MAKES APPEARANCES ON MANY SHOWS LIKE “CALIFORNICATION,” AND “ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT.” JUSTINE BATEMAN IS NOW ADDING AUTHOR TO HER RESUME. SHE JOINS ME TO TALK ABOUT HER NEW BOOK "FAME: THE HIJACKING OF REALITY." PLEASE WELCOME JUSTINE BATEMAN.

>> THANK YOU.

>> SO HERE WE ARE, THE COVER OF YOUR BOOK IS RIGHT HERE. HOW DOES IT FEEL NOW THAT IT IS OUT?

>> IT IS GREAT. CREATIVELY, JUST VISUALLY I'M SO EXCITED ABOUT THE COVER AND THE COVER IS GETTING A LOT OF NOTICE. THE FONT IS BY ALEXANDER PEATRA. HE DID A BEAUTIFUL FONT. AND MY PUBLISHER JUST LET ME DO WHATEVER I WANTED TO DO. SO I'M REALLY HAPPY WITH IT. AND INSIDE OF COURSE THE TEXT IS GETTING A LOT OF REALLY GOOD FEEDBACK. AND IT IS STARTING A LOT OF GOOD CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE TOPIC.

>> AND I LOVE THAT YOU KICK OFF THE BOOK BY SAYING THAT YOU DID NOT WANT TO DO A MEMOIR. AND YOU REALLY WANTED TO TACKLE THE CONCEPT OF FAME. WHY WAS IT IMPORTANT FOR YOU NOT TO DO A MEMOIR AND DIG DEEP INTO THIS TOPIC?

>> I'VE NEVER BEEN INTERESTED IN WRITING A MEMOIR. LIKE IT SAYS, I DON'T FIND THE FORMAT TO BE VERY FASCINATING. BUT I DO FIND THE SUBJECT OF FAME TO BE FASCINATING. AND FOR TWO REASONS I STARTED THE BOOK. ONE WAS I WANTED TO LOOK AT WHAT THAT EPHEMERAL MIST IS,LIKE IF BRAD PITT WALKED IN, EVERYTHING WOULD STOP. ANYTHING THAT WE'RE DOING, THE CAMERA WOULD DEFINITELY GO OVER THERE. SO IT CHANGES EVERYTHING WHEN IT ENTERS. AND THERE IS SOME THAT HAVE LONG LASTING FAME LIKE BRAD PITT, TOM CRUISE, AND THERE ARE OTHERS THAT THE CLOUD HOVERS FOR A WHILE AND THEN MOVES OFF. BUT WHILE IT IS OVER YOU, THAT SORT OF THING WILL HAPPEN. BUT YET WHEN IT MOVES OFF, THAT WON'T. SO THAT USED TO HAPPEN AND IT HASN'T HAPPENED FOR MANY YEARS SO I CAN WALK IN AND THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN AT ALL. AND THEN ALSO I WANTED TO LOOK AT -- IT SEEMED THAT AROUND 2000 THE OBSESSION WITH FAME REALLY EXPLODED AND IT COINCIDED WITH A LOT MORE MEDIA OUTLETS NEEDING MATERIAL. SO THERE WAS A PERFECT STORM THERE. SO THAT IS WHY I STARTED TO WRITE THE BOOK. AND THE FORMAT IS A VERY RAW EMOTIONAL TRAVEL THROUGH THE -- WHAT I CALL THE LIFECYCLE OF FAME. SO THAT IS THE STYLE OF IT SO THE AUDIENCE CAN REALLY FEEL LIKE WHAT IT FELT LIKE IN THE BEGINNING, AND THEN THE END.

>> AND YOU MENTION THE YEAR 2000 BEING A TURNING POINT. DO YOU FEEL LIKE WE'RE ALSO IN A TURNING POINT NOW WHERE THERE WAS A SECOND TURNING POINT WITH SOCIAL MEDIA AND EVERYTHING THAT IS JUST OUT THERE THAT THE ARTIST OR THE ACTOR CAN ACTUALLY PUT OUT FOR THEMSELVES?

>> THAT IS A GOOD POINT. I GO OVER THAT IN THE BOOK. IT WAS AROUND 2006, 2007 THAT SOCIAL MEDIA REALLY DID EXPLODE, START BECOMING INTEGRAL IN OUR LIVES. AND I THINK IT REALLY AMPLIFIED WHAT HAD ALREADY BEGUN LIKE WITH REALITY SHOWS AND ALL THESE SORT OF CELEBRITIES FOR UNKNOWN SKILLS AND TALENTS LET'S JUST SAY. I KNOW THAT -- I FIRMLY BELIEVE EVERYBODY HAS A BASKET OF UNIQUE SKILLS AND TALENTS, BUT FOR A LOT OF REALITY SHOW CONTESTANTS, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS. I DON'T THINK IT HAS YET BEEN EXPLOITED. OR EXPLORED BY THE INDIVIDUAL. MY PERSONAL OPINION. SO I THINK THAT THE SOCIAL MEDIA REALLY AMPLIFIED THIS OBSESSION WITH CELEBRITY AND FAME AND REALLY DEMOCRATIZED IT BECAUSE EVERYBODY COULD GET IN ON IT, EVERYBODY COULD GET MORE FOLLOWERS, MORE FOLLOWERS. AND FOR SOME, IT HAS TURNED INTO -- WHICH CAN BE A CONFUSING ELEMENT OF THIS, IT HAS TURNED INTO A LUCRATIVE BUSINESS. AND YET STILL WHERE IS THE DEVELOPMENT OF THEIR SKILLS AND TALENTS. BECAUSE WHEN THAT ATTENTION OR NUMBER STARTS DECREASING, THEY WILL HAVE NOTHING SUBSTANTIAL TO KIND COUNTER THAT WITH. SO WHATEVER THEY HAVE ATTACHED TO IT, THEIR SELF-ESTEEM, THEIR FINANCIAL HEALTH, ANYTHING, IS GOING TO LIKE HIT THE FLOOR WITH IT.

>> YEAH. I THINK IT IS AN UNSTABLE WORLD RIGHT NOW. AND IT IS AN INTERESTING PLACE TO BE. LIKE THE WAY THIS IS WRITTEN TOO. YOU ARE REALLY -- I THINK YOU USED THE WORD RAW. IT IS REALLY RAW. YOU FEEL LIKE YOU ARE TALKING TO US, LIKE YOU ARE THERE.

>> YEAH, THAT IS A GOOD POINT.

>> IT IS VERY COOL. WHAT WRITERS WERE YOU INSPIRED BY?

>> OH, AND I'M NOT COMPARING MYSELF TO THEM AT ALL, BUT MICHAEL HERR WHO WROTE “DISPATCHES” ABOUT BEING IN WAR AND THE STYLE -- I'VE NEVER BEEN ANYWHERE NEAR ARE WAR, BUT I FEEL LIKE HAVING READ THAT BOOK, I HAVE A FEEL FOR WHAT IS GOING THROUGH YOUR HEAD WHILE YOU ARE THERE. OF COURSE HUNTERESS THOMPSON. AND EVEN HERMAN MELVILLE. OKAY, WE'RE ON THE SHIP AND THEN LET ME TELL YOU ALL THIS STUFF ABOUT WHALING HOOKS. AND IT GOES ON AND ON AND SORT OF IGNORING SENTENCE STRUCTURE IN A LOT OF PLACES. AND I LOVE THAT. I FEEL LIKE IF SOMETHING IS WRITTEN IN A PARTICULAR FASHION WHERE -- AND YOU TRUE OF FILMS TOO. IF YOU KNOW WHAT IS COMING NEXT, YOUR BRAIN SORT OF FILLS IN AND YOU ARE NOT ALERT TO WHAT IS COMING NEXT. BUT IF I SEE A FILM THAT IS A PARALLEL UNIVERSE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN NEXT. WHEN THEY GO INTO SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE A RESTAURANT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN THERE. THEY WON'T JUST SIT DOWN AND ORDER FOOD OR ANYTHING. SO I FEEL LIKE BOOKS THAT SORT OF BREAK THAT STRUCTURE A BIT, I FEEL LIKE IS IT MAKES ME SIT UP AND PAY MORE ATTENTION TO WHAT I'M READING. AND SO THAT IS PART OF THE HOPE TOO.

>> IN ADDITION TO THE THEORY AND THE CONCEPT SURROUNDING FAME, YOU REALLY GET PERSONAL. WHEN YOU LOOK BACK AT THE TIME WHEN YOU ROSE TO FAME, WAS THERE IS A MOMENT WHEN YOU THOUGHT, OKAY, I MADE IT, THIS IS THE MOMENT I FEEL LIKE I'M A CELEB -- I'M A CELEBRITY NOW?

>> I THINK THAT CAN ONLY HAPPEN -- NOT ONLY. THE LIKELIHOOD OF THAT HAPPENING IS GREATER IF IT IS SOMETHING THAT YOU SOUGHT FOR A LONG TIME BEFOREHAND. I THINK THAT IS WITH ANYTHING. IF SUDDENLY YOU MEET SOMEONE YOU WANT TO MARRY BUT YOU WEREN'T REALLY LOOKING, IT IS LIKE WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO FOR YOUR WEDDING. GEEZ, I DON'T KNOW. I HAVEN'T REALLY BEEN THINKING ABOUT IT. VERSUS SOMEBODY WHO HAS BEEN PLANNING IT SINCE THEY WERE 13. SO SIMILAR TO THAT. AND I WASN'T LOOKING FOR IT. I HAD NO IDEA I WAS EVEN GOING TO GET INTO ACTING. SO YOU GET INTO THIS BOAT AND YOU ARE KIND OF GOING DOWN THIS RIVER OF FAME. AND THEN SUDDENLY IT JUST TURNS INTO THESE ROARING RAPIDS AND YOU'RE LOOK OH, MY GOD. SO FOR ME AND MOSTLY BECAUSE I WAS SO YOUNG, IT WAS ABOUT MANAGING MYSELF IN IT. AND IT IS JUST COMING TOO FAST AND TOO HARD ALL THE TIME. AND, YEAH -- YEAH.

>> IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU MISS ABOUT THAT TIME?

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW. I HAVE -- I WAS GOING TO SAY, YOU KNOW, PROFESSIONAL OPPORTUNITIES. BUT I HAVE SO MANY GREAT PROFESSIONAL OPPORTUNITIES RIGHT NOW AS A WRITER, DIRECTOR, PRODUCER AND AS AN AUTHOR. THAT I'M SO HAPPY RIGHT NOW WITH EVERYTHING THAT IS HAPPENING. I'VE GOT TWO SHORTS THAT ARE ON AOL PRIME RIGHT NOW, ONE A COMEDY CALLED "FIVE MINUTES" AND THE OTHER A DRAMA CALLED "PUSH." AND I'M ABOUT TO DIRECT A FILM THAT I WROTE CALLED "VIOLET." SO I'M JUST BEYOND. SO, NO, I CAN'T SAY -- I CAN'T SAY THAT THERE IS -- IT IS A REALLY TRIPPY EXPERIENCE. AND THE SUBTITLE OF HIJACKING REALITY, THE POINT OF MAKING IT IS THIS HAPPENS FOR SUCH A SMALL SUBSET OF PEOPLE, BUT IT IS RELATABLE IN THIS SENSE, THAT FOR ALL OF US WE HAVE A CERTAIN REALITY, WHERE WE LIVE, WHAT LANGUAGE WE SPEAK, WHAT JOB WE HAVE, WHO OUR PARENTS ARE, SISTERS, BROTHER, WHATEVER. AND IF ANY ONE OF THOSE ITEMS WERE TO BE REMOVED, IT IS HUGELY TRAUMATIC. BECAUSE IT HAS BECOME PART OF OUR REALITY. AND FOR A TINY SUBSET OF PEOPLE, FAME COMES IN AND SORT OF INUNDATES EVERYTHING. LIKE POURING WATER OVER A DRY FLOWER BED, IT WILL GO INTO EVERYTHING. SO WHEN IT STARTS LEAVING, IT'S GOT SORT OF -- IT TETHERS INTO LOTS OF THINGS ESPECIALLY THINGS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT YOURSELF OR HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT WHERE YOU SIT IN SOCIETY. AND SO WHEN IT STARTS LEAVING, YOU HAVE TO START UNHOOKING THOSE THINGS. AND THAT'S WHAT I CALL POST-FAME. WHEN THE FAME IS GOING AWAY, WHICH ISN'T TALKED ABOUT VERY MUCH. SO I GO INTO HOW I UNHOOKED STUFF, YOU KNOW. AND MAYBE THAT COULD BE THE WAY IN WHICH I DID IT MAYBE CAN BE A HELP FOR OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE NEEDING TO UNHOOK SOMETHING THAT IS LEAVING THEIR REALITY. NO MATTER WHAT IT IS.

>> THAT POST-FAME, WAS THAT SOMETHING THAT WAS CHALLENGING OR A SENSE OF RELIEF?

>> TOTALLY CHALLENGING. AND I KNOW -- AND I SAY IN THE BOOK THAT WILL SAY, OH, POOR BABY, YOU POOR LITTLE RICH BABY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WHICH IS LIKE, FIRST OF ALL, YEAH, JUST BECAUSE YOU WERE ONCE FAMOUS DOESN'T MEAN -- THE MONEY I MADE WHILE DOING "FAMILY TIES" OVER 30 YEARS AGO, I WISH THAT WAS A JOB LIKE A GOVERNMENT JOB WHERE WHEN YOU RETIRE YOU KEEP GETTING THAT CHECK. NO, NO. BUT ANYWAY, I'M NOT COMPLAINING. EVERYTHING IS TERRIFIC. BUT I'M JUST SAYING THERE IS THAT ASSUMPTION. BUT THE POINT I MAKE IN THE BOOK IS WHAT I SPOKE ABOUT JUST BEFORE. IT IS MORE ABOUT THIS THING THAT WAS FOUNDATIONAL TO YOUR REALITY IS BEING YANKED OUT. MAYBE YOUR FATHER LOSES A JOB OR SOMETHING AND THEY GO THAT WE HAVE TO MOVE TO ANOTHER CITY, WE'RE DOWNSIZING, WE'RE GOING TO LIVE IN AN APARTMENT NOW, YOU WILL HAVE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FRIENDS. AND IT IS JUST -- IT IS VERY JARRING AND EVERY TIME I GOT MY SORT OF BUTTONS PUSHED, I WOULD HAVE TO -- MY PROCESS THAT I WRITE ABOUT AND GO FIND OUT WHAT THE ROOT FEAR IS SO THAT I CAN BE IN THAT SIMILAR SITUATION AGAIN, HAVE THE SAME THING SAID AGAIN, BUT HOPEFULLY BY GETTING TO THE ROOT FEAR, HOPEFULLY I'VE REMOVED THE BUTTON. BECAUSE IT WASN'T THAT I WANTED EVERYBODY TO CHANGE THEIR BEHAVIOR AROUND ME, I JUST WANTED TO BECOME BULLETPROOF SO THAT EVERYONE'S BEHAVIOR IS STAYED THE SAME. BUT HE -- I REMOVED MY BUTTONS BY GETTING TO THE ROOT FEAR THAT I WAS FEELING.

>> AND YOUR BROTHER, JASON BATEMAN, WHAT IS HIS PERSPECTIVE?

>> I WON'T SPEAK FOR HIM, BUT I WILL TELL YOU MY -- WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE TO ME. JASON STARTED ACTING A YEAR BEFORE ME AND HAD BECOME A SEMI REGULAR ON “LITTLE HOUSE IN THE PRAIRIE.” AND HE HAD SERIES AFTER SERIES, TV MOVIES, AND WORKED A LOT. BUT I HAPPENED TO GET ON A SHOW THAT WENT STRAIGHT TO THE MOON. TO PUT IT INTO PERSPECTIVE FOR PEOPLE, BECAUSE WE HAD A HIGHLY CONCENTRATED AUDIENCE, WE DIDN'T HAVE 500 CABLE CHANNEL, WE DIDN'T HAVE THE INTERNET IN THE CONSUMER FACING WAY, SO AT OUR HEIGHT WHEN WE HAD UNBEATABLE THURSDAY NIGHT, MUST SEE TV WAS WHERE THAT TERM CAME FROM, WE WOULD HAVE 55 MILLION PEOPLE WATCHING US EVERY NIGHT. AND YOU CAN ONLY GET THOSE NUMBERS WITH THE SUPER BOWL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT NOW. SO THAT IS HOW HIGH THE FAME GOT.

>> BUT WITH JASON, HE DID “ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT” AND ALL THESE GREAT FILMS AND HE WAS DIRECTING HERE AND THERE. AND HE FROM MY PERSPECTIVE HE DID SOMETHING VERY SMART WITH THE SLOW BURN KIND OF FAME THAT HE -- THE WAY IN WHICH HE ATTAINED HIS. HE TOOK THAT FAME CURRENCY AND HE INVESTED IT BACK INTO PROFESSIONALLY. SO HE SET HIMSELF UP WITH DEVELOPMENT DEALS AND THINGS LIKE THIS. AND NOW HE HAS THIS -- I KNOW YOU'VE PROBABLY WATCHED OZARK. HE HAS THIS COMPANY THAT DOES THESE PRODUCTIONS. FOR ME, I HAD OPPORTUNITIES LIKE THAT, BUT I WAS TOO YOUNG -- BECAUSE OF THE FAME, BUT I WAS TOO YOUNG TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS WAS CURRENCY THAT I COULD USE PROFESSIONALLY THAT COULD BE PLANTED AND THEN BE HARVESTED LATER. I DON'T REGRET ANYTHING, BUT JUST TO COMPARE, YOU KNOW, JASON HAS BEEN REALLY, REALLY SMART WITH HIS.

>> IT IS INTERESTING JUST TO SEE THE PERSPECTIVE AND SEEING HOW YOU LOOK AT IT AND WATCHING FROM AFAR AND VICE VERSA I'M SURE. WITH "FAMILY TIES," I WAS ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE TUNING INTO THE SHOW EVERY WEEK. AND THEN THE RERUNS AS WELL. AND THAT IS THE TYPE OF SHOW WHEN I WAS THINKING ABOUT TALKING TO YOU, I WAS THINKING ABOUT THE POLITICAL CLIMATE. BECAUSE THE POLITICAL CLIMATE WAS A REAL DRIVING FORCE WITH ALEX BEING THE REPUBLICAN AND THE REST OF THE FAMILY BEING A BIT MORE LIBERAL. WHAT KIND OF SHOW WOULD THAT BE LIKE NOW IN THE POLITICAL CLIMATE TODAY?

>> WELL, I MEAN MY PERSONAL FEELING ABOUT REBOOTS IS THAT I'M VERY AGAINST IT. I MEAN I FEEL SORT OF BAD FOR THIS GENERATION, I FEEL BAD FOR THE POP CULTURE OF THIS GENERATION BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE THEY ARE GETTING A LOT OF RETREAD, A LOT OF JUST KIND OF -- YOU KNOW, DIGESTED AND VOMITED STUFF FROM OUR TEENS AND 20s AND ALL OF THAT. AND I THINK THAT IS A SHAME. THERE IS A LOT OF NEW STUFF TOO OF COURSE, BUT THERE IS JUST -- I FEEL LIKE THE REBOOTS AND SEQUELS AND EVERYTHING HAS GONE OVERBOARD NOW. AND THEY ARE NOT EVEN REIMAGININGS. AND IT MAKES SENSE THAT THERE WOULD BE A LOT OF COMFORT FOOD PROGRAMMING NOW BECAUSE THINGS FEEL SO INFLUX AND PEOPLE WANT THAT COMFORT, BUT I DON'T THINK IT IS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO. SO I'M 100% AGAINST ANY "FAMILY TIES" REBOOT. BUT IF SOMEBODY DID A NEW SHOW THAT WITHIN A FAMILY HAD CONFLICTING POLITICAL VIEWS, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. BUT FAMILY TIES FOR ME IS STRICTLY 80S. IT WAS VERY SPECIFIC TO THAT TIME. RONALD REAGAN WAS PRESIDENT. YOU KNOW, IT WAS DIFFERENT.

>> I ABSOLUTELY AGREE. AND IT WAS THE TYPE OF THING FOR YOU, I THINK YOU WROTE IT IN YOUR ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS THAT YOU SAID IT WAS LIKE HAPPEN STANCE, THAT YOU WEREN'T EVEN SUPPOSED TO GET THAT AUDITION.

>> OH, YEAH, I HAD AN AGENT TRACY JACOBS WHO WAS AT A BIG TALENT AGENCY. AND SHE HAD JUST COME FROM ADVERTISING. SHE HAD NOTHING TO LOSE. SO THE RULE WAS THE KIDS IN THIS AGENCY HAD TO GO OUT FOR -- THEY HAD TO DO LIKE 15 COMMERCIALS OR SOMETHING BEFORE YOU WOULD SEND THEM OUT ON A THEATRICAL AUDITION, A NONCOMMERCIAL. AND I HAD ONLY DONE TWO COMMERCIALS. SO WITHIN FOUR MONTHS, I HAD DONE TWO COMMERCIALS AND SHE WAS LIKE SCREW IT, SHE SENT ME OUT AND I GOT IT. AND THAT WAS IT.

>> AND YOU WERE JUST THROWN INTO IT. A SENSATION RIGHT AWAY. BACK TO THE FAME THEME. BUT IN YOUR LATE 40s, YOU WENT BACK TO UCLA TO GET YOUR DEGREE. WHAT WAS BEHIND THAT CHOICE?

>> I GOT FAMILY TIES WHEN I WAS 16, SO I COULDN'T GO TO COLLEGE, I HAD TO BE INFORMED OF THIS, I DIDN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND THAT I COULDN'T JUST GO. SO THAT WAS A WHOLE OTHER STORY. BUT I DIDN'T GO THEN. AND THEN I KEPT WORKING A LOT AFTER "FAMILY TIES." AND ANYWAY, SO AT 46, I WOULD SAY FIVE YEARS PRIOR TO THAT, I HAD GOTTEN INTO WRITING AND PRODUCING IN THE DIGITAL SPACE. AND IT JUST FELT LIKE THAT IS WHAT I WAS BORN FOR. AND STILL DO. SO I PUT TOGETHER PROPOSALS AND I WOULD MEET WITH DIFFERENT TECH PEOPLE. AND PUT TOGETHER THE DISTRIBUTION PLAN, ALL THIS SORT OF THING. AND THEN I KEPT HEARING YOU ARE FOUR YEARS AHEAD, AND I WAS LIKE WHAT? LIKE IN 2007, THIS WILL SOUND FUNNY, I WAS GOING AROUND PITCHING FULL LENGTH SHOWS FOR THE INTERNET. AND PEOPLE WERE LIKE YOU'RE CRAZY. NO ONE WILL WATCH MORE THAN THREE MINUTES. AND I WAS LIKE NO, NO, NO, THREE MINUTES IS A TECHNICAL RESTRICTION ON YouTUBE. AND THERE ARE OTHER PLACES THAT WE CAN GO.

>> BUT LONG STORY SHORT, FINALLY I TOOK A MEETING WITH A COMPANY THAT SAID I WANT TO HEAR WHAT SCRIPTS YOU HAVE. AND I STARTED TALKING ABOUT WHAT I WAS INTERESTED IN AT THAT POINT AND THEY WERE LIKE HERE'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR AND THEY STARTED PITCHING TO ME THE THINGS THAT I HAD BEEN PITCHING IN 2007. AND I WAS LIKE OKAY, I CAN'T KEEP DOING THIS. SO I DECIDED LIKE I'M GOING TO GO GET A COMPUTER SCIENCE DEGREE. BECAUSE A LOT OF MY PROJECTS ARE LAYERED. THEY COMBINE TECHNOLOGY AND ENTERTAINMENT. THE ONES THAT ARE COMING AFTER I FINISH THIS FILM, THAT IS THE PLAN. WE'LL SEE IF IT GOES THAT WAY. AND YEAH, SO I THOUGHT, WELL, I'LL JUST GO GET A COMPUTER SCIENCE DEGREE AND CIRCUMNAVIGATE THE SORT OF -- SORT OF PATH I WAS ATTEMPTING AND GET THESE PROJECTS DONE MYSELF. AND THANK GOD I ONLY APPLIED TO ONE SCHOOL, UCLA, THANK GOD I GOT THIS. ANYWAY, I HAD PLAN B AND PLAN C, BUT IT WAS A FANTASTIC EXPERIENCE. THAT WILL BE MY THIRD BOOK.

>> I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU IF YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT OTHER BOOKS.

>> I'M DOING A SECOND BOOK ABOUT HOW WOMEN'S FACES CHANGE IN THE PUBLIC EYE, WOMEN'S FACES GETTING OLDER IN THE PUBLIC EYE AND WHY IT MAKES THE PUBLIC SO ANGRY.

>> OH, WOW.

>> ALSO GETS INTO THIS SORT OF ASSUMED SHAME THAT ANY WOMAN, WHETHER IN THE PUBLIC EYE OR NOT, THAT ANY WOMAN IS ALMOST SUPPOSED TO ADOPT AS THEIR FACES GET OLDER. THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO SORT OF NOT -- SORT OF EYES DOWNCAST AND SORT OF ADAPT A CERTAIN DEGREE OF SHAME. SO ANYWAY, IT WILL BE A DIFFERENT FORMAT THAN THIS BOOK, BUT I'VE BEEN TALKING WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT WOMEN AND GETTING ALL THESE DIFFERENT STORIES. IT GIVES ME CHILLS. IT IS SUCH A GOOD TOPIC. AND I TALK ABOUT IN THE BOOK I'VE BEEN REALLY ATTACKED FOR MY FACE. AND I'M LIKE -- CAN I CUSS ON HERE?

>> YEAH, IT IS THE WEB, YOU KNOW.

>> I'M LIKE -- IT, I ALWAYS WANTED TO LOOK LIKE THIS, I ALWAYS WANTED TO HAVE LIKE LINES HERE, AND LIKE SKIN SORT OF LIKE MY NECK IS GETTING LIKE LOOSE SKIN LIKE HERE AND STUFF. AND I ALWAYS WANT THAT HAD  -- I WANTED THAT. NO OFFENSE TO PEOPLE WITH SMOOTH SKIN, BUT I THINK THIS IS SO MUCH MORE INTERESTING. IF YOU SEE MY FACE, YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'LL GET. I DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THE TIME TO LIKE INFORM YOU THAT I'M INTERESTING AND COMPLEX. LIKE YOU KNOW WHEN I STAND IN FRONT OF YOU, I'M INTERESTING AND COMPLEX, AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT I TELL MYSELF. SO DON'T TELL ME OTHERWISE.

>> NO, I LOVE IT. I LOVE THIS CONCEPT BECAUSE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT KEEPS COMING UP IN HOLLYWOOD AND WOMEN AND LIKE THE PRESSURE THAT MANY WOMEN IN HOLLYWOOD AND EVERYONE FACES.

>> YEAH, LIKE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO FEEL BAD IF YOUR FACE LOOKS OLDER. AND IF YOU DO PLASTIC SURGERY, YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO FEEL BAD THAT YOU GOT THE PLASTIC SURGERY. THE WHOLE THING IS JUST -- UP. AND THE THIRD ONE WILL BE ABOUT THE COLLEGE EXPERIENCE.

>> THIS IS GOOD STUFF. HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO WRITE THIS AND DO YOU THINK IT WILL THAT THAT LONG FOR THE SECOND BOOK?

>> FOR ME, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS THE SAME FOR OTHER PEOPLE, BUT WHEN I MAKE SOMETHING, LIKE I USED TO MAKE A LOT OF COLLAGES JUST FOR FUN OR WHENEVER I WRITE, I LET THINGS BAKE FOR A WHILE AND THEN WHEN THEY ARE READY TO COME OUT OF THE OVEN, THEN I CAN WRITE IT REALLY QUICKLY. SO I TAKE A LOT OF NOTES, THINK ABOUT IT, THINK ABOUT IT, THINK ABOUT IT. SO THIS ONE, I STARTED TAKING NOTES LET'S SAY LIKE TWO YEARS, BUT I WAS GOING TO SCHOOL AT THE TIME. SO I COULDN'T WORK ON IT DURING SCHOOL YEAR, ONLY DURING THE SUMMERS. AND JUST A LITTLE BIT. BUT I WOULD TAKE NOTES. I WOULD MAKE NOTES, MAKE NOTES, MAKE NOTES. AND WHEN I GRADUATED IN 2016, TOOK ME A FEW MONTHS TO WRITE AN ACADEMIC VERSION WHICH IS WHAT I STARTED WRITING. AND THEN I REALIZED IT NEEDED  -- REALIZED THAT IT NEEDED TO BE A DIFFERENT STYLE. AND THAT TOOK ME THREE WEEKS. I DID NOTHING BUT WRITE FOR THREE WEEKS. SO I GIVE YOU THE LONG ANSWER BECAUSE I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO GO LIKE OH, SHE POPPED THIS OFF IN THREE WEEKS. YEAH, BUT I REALLY WORKED ON IT FOR LIKE TWO YEARS. AND THEN WHEN IT WAS TIME TO TAKE IT OUT OF THE OVEN, IT TOOK THREE WEEKS TO GET IT ON TO THE TABLE.

>> AND IT HAS GOTTEN A LOT OF PRAISE. MICHAEL J. FOX GAVE YOU A THUMBS UP. YOU STILL STAY IN TOUCH WITH THAT CAST.

>> YEAH. A LOT OF GREAT NAMES. AND I HAVE SOME BEAUTIFUL BLURBS FROM PEOPLE. AND LIKE MARY LOUISE PARKER HAS A BOOK CALLED DEAR MR. YOU. IT GIVES ME CHILLS. HER WRITING IS SO BEAUTIFUL. IT IS NOT COMMON THAT SOMEBODY WHO IS THAT GOOD AT ONE THING WILL BE THAT GOOD AT SOMETHING ELSE. SO I ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO GET DEAR MR. YOU. SHE WROTE A BEAUTIFUL BLURB TOO.

>> ALL RIGHT. LET'S GET TO THE QUESTIONS FROM THE CROWD. RIGHT HERE ABOUT THAT.

>> A BIG FAN FROM YOUR "FAMILY TIES" DAYS AND ONWARD. I WANTED TO ASK YOU, DO YOU COVER IN YOUR BACK THE TRAJECTORY OF FAME WITH YOUR "FAMILY TIES" CO-STARS? SOME WENT ON LIKE MICHAEL J. FOX WENT ON TO TREMENDOUS FAME AND OTHERS WENT ON TO DIFFERENT TYPE OF WORK.

>> I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I DON'T GET INTO THAT VERY SPECIFICALLY, BUT I DO TOUCH ON THE FACT THAT IT WAS GREAT TO HAVE MICHAEL THERE AT THE SAME TIME BECAUSE HIS FAME -- IT WAS HAPPENING AT THE SAME TIME, BUT HIS FAME WAS ALWAYS BIGGER THAN MINE. AND SO IT WAS NICE TO HAVE A SORT OF MENTOR. WHETHER HE KNEW IT OR NOT, LIKE A FAME MENTOR FOR ME. AND NO MATTER HOW BAD IT GOT FOR ME LIKE YOU'RE MOBBED IN A MALL OR SOMETHING, I'D ALWAYS TELL MYSELF MIKE'S GOT IT WORSE.

>> THANKS FOR THAT QUESTION. WHO IS NEXT? RIGHT THERE.

>> HI. I WAS WONDERING WHAT MOMENT, IF ANY, FOR YOU DID YOU REALIZE LIKE IN POP CULTURE DID YOU REALIZE THAT FAME WAS KIND OF THIS CONCEPT OF FAME AND, YOU KNOW, HOW IT AFFECTS CELEBRITIES HAD SPIRALED OUT OF CONTROL.

>> I THINK IT WAS AROUND 2000 WHERE I SAW IT HAPPENING. LIKE I SAID, WHEN I WAS VERY FAMOUS, THOUGH THE FAME WAS VERY HIGH AND VERY STRONG, THERE WEREN'T THAT MANY OUTLETS. I BREAK DOWN THE WHOLE THING, BUT THERE WAS LIKE “ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT,” “ACCESS HOLLYWOOD,” WE HAD THE SHOWBIZ MINUTE ON CNN THAT REALLY WAS A MINUTE. WE DIDN'T HAVE E!. SO NO 24 HOURS OF ENTERTAINMENT. AND WE HAD FAR FEWER MAGAZINES THAT COVERED THIS SORT OF THING. AND NOT A CONSUMER FACING INTERNET REALLY. SO THERE WEREN'T THAT MANY OUTLETS FOR IT. AND I THINK AROUND 2000 WHEN YOU HAD SO MANY MORE OUTLET, THEY NEEDED TO FILL THE PAGES. THERE WERE ONLY SO MANY FAMOUS ACTORS OR MUSICIANS. IT STARTED THERE AND REALITY SHOWS STARTED THERE TOO. SO EVERYBODY WAS LIKE OH, GREAT, WE CAN PUT LIKE SOMEBODY HAS HAD EIGHT KIDS ON THE COVER BECAUSE WE CAN'T GET A FAMOUS ACTOR OR WHATEVER. AND SO THAT STARTED THERE. AND THEN THERE WAS NO PUTTING THE CAT BACK IN THE BAG OR WHATEVER THE TERM IS.

>> NO GOING BACK.

>> NO GOING BACK. AND THEN SOCIAL MEDIA THEN HAS MADE IT EVEN STRONGER. BUT MY HOPE IS WHEN PEOPLE READ THE BOOK THAT -- I HOPE PEOPLE CAN START -- BECAUSE IT IS AN INDIVIDUAL THING HOW YOU WILL FEEL ABOUT FAME. AND I HOPE THAT PEOPLE CAN START -- THANKS FOR THAT QUESTION. I HOPE PEOPLE CAN START PUTTING IT BACK IN PERSPECTIVE FOR THEMSELVES, YOU KNOW. LIKE RAINN WILSON WAS TELLING ME THIS GOOD ANALOGY. YOU THINK ABOUT PEOPLE BEING FAMOUS. THERE IS A LOT OF PARTICIPANTS IN THAT. IT IS NOT THE PERSON THEMSELVES, YOU KNOW, SAYING I'M FAMOUS. IT IS EVERYONE REACTING TO IT, RIGHT? SO HE WAS TELLING ME WHEN HE HAD HIS SHAKESPEARIAN STUDIES IN THEATER SCHOOL AND WHEN IT CAME TIME TO PLAY KING, THE STUDENTS ASKED THE PROFESSOR, WELL, WHAT DO WE DO HERE? DO WE STAND MORE REGALLY OR NOT PAY ATTENTION TO PEOPLE. AND HE GOES IT IS -- YOU DO NOTHING. IT IS ALL ABOUT WHAT THE OTHER PEOPLE ARE DOING AROUND YOU. AND SO IF WE AS PARTICIPANTS IN THIS FAME -- IT IS ONE THING TO LIKE ADMIRE SOMEBODY'S WORK. TO ME THAT IS A SEPARATE KIND OF FAME. IF PAUL THOMAS ANDERSON CAME IN RIGHT NOW, I'D BE LIKE WOW, THIS IS REALLY RAD, I LOVE HIS WORK SO MUCH. TO ME THAT IS LIKE MY SPIRIT RECOGNIZING SOMETHING THAT MOVED ME. BUT THE FRENZIED SOMETHING OF SOMEBODY WALKS IN WHOSE WORK I DON'T THINK ABOUT BUT THEY ARE STILL FAMOUS AND IT WILL CHANGE THE TEMPERATURE IN THIS ROOM, THAT KIND OF FAME I HOPE WE CAN START PUTTING IN PERSPECTIVE AND REALLY VALUING OURSELVES AGAIN. LIKE THE JEFFREY OWENS STORY RECENTLY OF PEOPLE TRYING TO SHAME HIM BECAUSE HE HAD A JOB AT TRADER JOE'S. HERE IS THIS INTELLIGENT TALENTED MAN, HAPPENS TO HAVE THIS JOB WHICH FRANKLY WILL MAKE HIM A BETTER ACTOR, THE MORE EXPERIENCE YOU HAVE WITH ANYTHING. AND TO SHAME HIM FOR THAT, IT REALLY TOUCHED A NERVE WITH THE PUBLIC. I THINK PEOPLE WERE PRETTY OUTRAGED THAT OTHER PEOPLE WERE TRYING TO MOCK HIM FOR THAT. I HOPE WE CAN GO BACK TO THAT. I FEEL LIKE WE HAD THAT PRIOR TO 2000. I HOPE THAT WE CAN APPRECIATE OURSELVES AND APPRECIATE EACH OTHER MORE REGARDLESS OF HOW MANY GOD DAMN FOLLOWERS WE HAVE.

>> I THINK THAT IS A GREAT PLACE TO END THIS INTERVIEW AND CHAT. AND THANKS FOR THAT GREAT QUESTION. THE BOOK IS OUT NOW. JUSTINE BATEMAN! GIVE IT UP ONE MORE TIME.

Monét X Change & Logan Browning

The X Change Rate is officially open! We couldn't have had a better guest to join Monét X Change on our new show's debut than Logan Browning. Don't miss all the tea cause trust and believe there was some spilled! ☕️✌️ (Photo Credit: Jammi York /BUILD )

Logan Browning & Allison Williams

They're just perfect! 🥰 Horror fans you're in for a treat with the new Netflix Original movie, "The Perfection," starring Allison Williams and Logan Browning! Find out what makes this particular horror/thriller different than the rest. (Photo Credit: Jammi York /BUILD )

Julianna Margulies

Some people are just class acts and Julianna Margulies absolutely falls in that category! You DEFINITELY want to check out what she had to say not only about her new miniseries, "The Hot Zone," but about Trump, abortion and more. (Photo Credit: Jammi York /BUILD )

Michael Emerson & John Turturro

Book lovers know how nerve-wracking it can be when you hear one is being adapted. But fans of the novel, "The Name of the Rose," can rest easy knowing that John Turturro and Michael Emerson are in the miniseries. Watch our conversation with them. (Photo Credit: Noam Galai /BUILD )

Austin Crute, Jessica Elbaum, Diana Silvers, Olivia Wilde, Beanie Feldstein, Noah Galvin, Molly Gordon, Kaitlyn Dever & Katie Silberman

Good director, good cast, good screenplay...there are MANY reasons why viewers and critics alike are raving about the new Olivia Wilde-directed comedy, "Booksmart." We were beside ourselves to have the opportunity to chat with the lovely folks behind it. Don't miss it!  (Photo Credit: Noam Galai /BUILD )

Jharrel Jerome, Asante Blackk, Caleel Harris, Ethan Herisse & Marquis Rodriguez

Huge kudos to these young talented actors for taking the time to explore a narrative that, unfortunately, is still relevant to this day. Be sure to tune into our convo with the actors of the Netflix miniseries, "When They See Us," about the Central Park Five. (Photo Credit: Noam Galai /BUILD )

Pam Grier

Things got a bit foxy at the BUILD Studio and we were all for it! 😏We sat down with the one and only Pam Grier to chat about the subscription service for blaxploitation films and more, BrownSugar.com. Grab a coffee and watch! (Photo Credit: Mike Pont /BUILD )

Jenny Slate, Lake Bell, Patton Oswalt, Eric Stonestreet & Bobby Moynihan

It's no secret that we were all cracking up during our time with this hilarious group. Check out the doggone (😅) good time we had with the cast of "The Secret Life of Pets 2" and have a laugh or two! (Photo Credit: Jammi York /BUILD )

Jana Kramer

We all need to whine down sometimes and there's no better way to do it than with Jana Kramer and her husband, Mike Caussin! Listen to what they had to say about their podcast, "Whine Down," and be sure to watch Kramer's performance as well. (Photo Credit: BUILD /BUILD )

Hannah Brown

The 15th season of "The Bachelorette" is officially underway and looking for her chance at love is Hannah Brown! She joined us herself and spilled some tea about her time on the show. That being said....Will you watch our chat? 🌹 (Photo Credit: Jammi York /BUILD )

Jacob Anderson

That smile though! Everybody's favorite worm stopped by the BUILD Studio. Jacob Anderson, musically known as Raleigh Ritchie, talked new music and, of course, "Game of Thrones," including his feelings on Missandei's death. (Photo Credit: Jammi York /BUILD )

Charles Melton & Yara Shahidi

The sun isn't the only star around here! 🤩From their film, "The Sun Is Also a Star," to what's next in "grown-ish" and "Riverdale," don't miss what the actors Yara Shahidi and Charles Melton had to say. (Photo Credit: Noam Galai /BUILD )

Geoffrey Fletcher, Laura Dern, Jack O'Connell & Edward Zwick

Some stories are hard to tell, but they must be told nonetheless. This fine group of folks did just that with their film, "Trial by Fire," based on a true story about an injustice in the criminal justice system. Tune into our conversation with Laura Dern, Jack O'Connell, director Edward Zwick and writer Geoffrey Fletcher. (Photo Credit: Mike Pont /BUILD )

Paris Hilton

Sitting down with Paris Hilton...that's hot! 🔥Watch the multi-talented icon tell us all about her buzzing new music single, "My Best Friend's Ass," starring her, Kim Kardashian and more. (Photo Credit: Mike Pont /BUILD )

Gabrielle Union & Jessica Alba

Jessica Alba + Gabrielle Union = 🤯🤩🥰 Two of the most successful multi-talented actresses working today and, honestly, they're more than just "L.A's Finest"! Watch the ladies rave about their new show and also open up about their personal lives. (Photo Credit: Noam Galai /BUILD )

Method Man, Allen Maldonado & Tracy Morgan

These three guys made us laugh while also dropping some knowledge! Tracy Morgan, Allen Maldonado and Method Man of "The Last O.G." not only discussed season two but the show's deeper meaning and where they want it to go. (Photo Credit: Mike Pont /BUILD )

Aly & AJ

They complement each other so well! 😍Everyone's favorite sister-duo is back with new music and we couldn't have been happier...that was until we actually sat down with them and talked about their new EP, "Sanctuary!" 😁 (Photo Credit: Jammi York /BUILD )

Stray Kids

Stray Kids always have a home at BUILD! 😏 The studio was absolutely abuzz, to say the least, with all the fans that the award-winning K-pop group brought out. Do not miss the great time we had with them! (Photo Credit: Mike Pont /BUILD )

Zara Larsson

When you got, you got it 🤷‍♀️...and Zara Larsson has IT! Check out the talented musician talk about her "Don't Worry Bout Me" tour! (Photo Credit: Mike Pont /BUILD )

David Cross

As you could imagine, we had a hilarious conversation with the timeless comedian David Cross about his new special and more. Be sure to watch because we swear he's gotten funnier over the years! 😂 (Photo Credit: Jammi York /BUILD )

Crispin Glover & Taissa Farmiga

What's it like adapting a popular mystery novel into a film? Well, Taissa Farmiga and Crispin Glover have the answer! The two stars discussed what it was like shooting the drama/thriller, "We Have Always Lived in the Castle." (Photo Credit: Jammi York /BUILD )

Kiefer Sutherland

Now back on Netflix after being canceled, Kiefer Sutherland really lives up to the title of "Designated Survivor." 😎Find out what you can expect from the third season of the political drama that keeps viewers on the edge of their seats. (Photo Credit: Mike Pont /BUILD )

Halima Aden, Tyra Banks, MJ Day, Camille Kostek & Hunter McGrady

The Sports Illustrated Swimsuit cover has become a staple in our culture! So we were happy to have the chance to not only talk with two of the 2019 covergirls, Tyra Banks and Camille Kostek, but also models Halima Aden, Hunter McGrady and SI Swimsuit Editor MJ Day about the iconic magazine issue that has become so inclusive. (Photo Credit: Jammi York /BUILD )

Craig Ferguson

If there's anyone who has a life worth writing about it's definitely Craig Ferguson! He opened up about why he left the late-night host scene, his time as a bouncer in NYC and more. (Photo Credit: Mike Pont /BUILD )

Cheslie Kryst, 2019 Miss USA

Cheslie Kryst is a lawyer, former college athlete and now she's Miss USA 🤯...what a woman! Be sure to check out our lovely chat with her about winning the iconic pageant and what she plans to do with her platform! (Photo Credit: Jammi York /BUILD )

Mena Massoud

We sat down to chat with Aladdin himself, Mena Massoud, and we've got to say...it was a magical conversation! 🤩 Hear all about what it was like working on-set with Will Smith and bringing the beloved Disney film to life. (Photo Credit: Mike Pont /BUILD )

Rosie Huntington-Whiteley

Gorgeous is not the word! 😍As if you weren't already, watch Rosie Huntington-Whiteley, model and creator of Rose Inc., discuss what inspired and what goes into her site about all things beauty. (Photo Credit: Jammi York /BUILD )

Ser Anzoategui, Mishel Prada, Tanya Saracho, Roberta Colindrez, Carlos Miranda, Raúl Castillo & Chelsea Rendon

"Vida" means "life" in Spanish and that's exactly what this show gives us and millions of other people! Find out what awaits viewers in season two of the STARZ series from the talented cast and creator. (Photo Credit: Jammi York /BUILD )

Christopher Markus & Stephen McFeely

We had the pleasure of talking with the writers of what's sure to become the highest-grossing film of all-time, "Avengers: Endgame." Watch as we talk about the process of creating the culmination of over 20 Marvel films. And don't worry, we #DontSpoilTheEndgame! (Photo Credit: Mike Pont /BUILD )

Christina Applegate, Liz Feldman & Linda Cardellini

Contrary to their show's name, Christina Applegate, Liz Feldman and Linda Cardellini give us life! 😍 Hear all about their new dark comedy Netflix series, "Dead to Me." (Also, we talk a little "Avengers: Endgame" with Linda! 😎)  (Photo Credit: Noam Galai /BUILD )

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