10.10.18

Justine Bateman Talks Her Latest Book, "Fame: The Hijacking of Reality"

Mining decades of experience, writer, director, producer, and actress Justine Bateman writes a visceral, intimate look at the experience of fame. Combining the internal reality-shift of the famous, theories on the public's behavior at each stage of a famous person's career, and the experiences of other famous performers, Bateman takes the reader inside and outside the emotions of Fame. The book, "Fame: The Hijacking of Reality," includes twenty-four color photographs to highlight her analysis.

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>>> HEY, EVERYONE. YOU'RE WATCHING BUILD SERIES IN NEW YORK CITY. OUR NEXT GUEST ROSE TO FAME AS MALLORY KEATON ON "FAMILY TIES" AND WENT ON TO STAR IN “MEN BEHAVING BADLY” AND MAKES APPEARANCES ON MANY SHOWS LIKE “CALIFORNICATION,” AND “ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT.” JUSTINE BATEMAN IS NOW ADDING AUTHOR TO HER RESUME. SHE JOINS ME TO TALK ABOUT HER NEW BOOK "FAME: THE HIJACKING OF REALITY." PLEASE WELCOME JUSTINE BATEMAN.

>> THANK YOU.

>> SO HERE WE ARE, THE COVER OF YOUR BOOK IS RIGHT HERE. HOW DOES IT FEEL NOW THAT IT IS OUT?

>> IT IS GREAT. CREATIVELY, JUST VISUALLY I'M SO EXCITED ABOUT THE COVER AND THE COVER IS GETTING A LOT OF NOTICE. THE FONT IS BY ALEXANDER PEATRA. HE DID A BEAUTIFUL FONT. AND MY PUBLISHER JUST LET ME DO WHATEVER I WANTED TO DO. SO I'M REALLY HAPPY WITH IT. AND INSIDE OF COURSE THE TEXT IS GETTING A LOT OF REALLY GOOD FEEDBACK. AND IT IS STARTING A LOT OF GOOD CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE TOPIC.

>> AND I LOVE THAT YOU KICK OFF THE BOOK BY SAYING THAT YOU DID NOT WANT TO DO A MEMOIR. AND YOU REALLY WANTED TO TACKLE THE CONCEPT OF FAME. WHY WAS IT IMPORTANT FOR YOU NOT TO DO A MEMOIR AND DIG DEEP INTO THIS TOPIC?

>> I'VE NEVER BEEN INTERESTED IN WRITING A MEMOIR. LIKE IT SAYS, I DON'T FIND THE FORMAT TO BE VERY FASCINATING. BUT I DO FIND THE SUBJECT OF FAME TO BE FASCINATING. AND FOR TWO REASONS I STARTED THE BOOK. ONE WAS I WANTED TO LOOK AT WHAT THAT EPHEMERAL MIST IS,LIKE IF BRAD PITT WALKED IN, EVERYTHING WOULD STOP. ANYTHING THAT WE'RE DOING, THE CAMERA WOULD DEFINITELY GO OVER THERE. SO IT CHANGES EVERYTHING WHEN IT ENTERS. AND THERE IS SOME THAT HAVE LONG LASTING FAME LIKE BRAD PITT, TOM CRUISE, AND THERE ARE OTHERS THAT THE CLOUD HOVERS FOR A WHILE AND THEN MOVES OFF. BUT WHILE IT IS OVER YOU, THAT SORT OF THING WILL HAPPEN. BUT YET WHEN IT MOVES OFF, THAT WON'T. SO THAT USED TO HAPPEN AND IT HASN'T HAPPENED FOR MANY YEARS SO I CAN WALK IN AND THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN AT ALL. AND THEN ALSO I WANTED TO LOOK AT -- IT SEEMED THAT AROUND 2000 THE OBSESSION WITH FAME REALLY EXPLODED AND IT COINCIDED WITH A LOT MORE MEDIA OUTLETS NEEDING MATERIAL. SO THERE WAS A PERFECT STORM THERE. SO THAT IS WHY I STARTED TO WRITE THE BOOK. AND THE FORMAT IS A VERY RAW EMOTIONAL TRAVEL THROUGH THE -- WHAT I CALL THE LIFECYCLE OF FAME. SO THAT IS THE STYLE OF IT SO THE AUDIENCE CAN REALLY FEEL LIKE WHAT IT FELT LIKE IN THE BEGINNING, AND THEN THE END.

>> AND YOU MENTION THE YEAR 2000 BEING A TURNING POINT. DO YOU FEEL LIKE WE'RE ALSO IN A TURNING POINT NOW WHERE THERE WAS A SECOND TURNING POINT WITH SOCIAL MEDIA AND EVERYTHING THAT IS JUST OUT THERE THAT THE ARTIST OR THE ACTOR CAN ACTUALLY PUT OUT FOR THEMSELVES?

>> THAT IS A GOOD POINT. I GO OVER THAT IN THE BOOK. IT WAS AROUND 2006, 2007 THAT SOCIAL MEDIA REALLY DID EXPLODE, START BECOMING INTEGRAL IN OUR LIVES. AND I THINK IT REALLY AMPLIFIED WHAT HAD ALREADY BEGUN LIKE WITH REALITY SHOWS AND ALL THESE SORT OF CELEBRITIES FOR UNKNOWN SKILLS AND TALENTS LET'S JUST SAY. I KNOW THAT -- I FIRMLY BELIEVE EVERYBODY HAS A BASKET OF UNIQUE SKILLS AND TALENTS, BUT FOR A LOT OF REALITY SHOW CONTESTANTS, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS. I DON'T THINK IT HAS YET BEEN EXPLOITED. OR EXPLORED BY THE INDIVIDUAL. MY PERSONAL OPINION. SO I THINK THAT THE SOCIAL MEDIA REALLY AMPLIFIED THIS OBSESSION WITH CELEBRITY AND FAME AND REALLY DEMOCRATIZED IT BECAUSE EVERYBODY COULD GET IN ON IT, EVERYBODY COULD GET MORE FOLLOWERS, MORE FOLLOWERS. AND FOR SOME, IT HAS TURNED INTO -- WHICH CAN BE A CONFUSING ELEMENT OF THIS, IT HAS TURNED INTO A LUCRATIVE BUSINESS. AND YET STILL WHERE IS THE DEVELOPMENT OF THEIR SKILLS AND TALENTS. BECAUSE WHEN THAT ATTENTION OR NUMBER STARTS DECREASING, THEY WILL HAVE NOTHING SUBSTANTIAL TO KIND COUNTER THAT WITH. SO WHATEVER THEY HAVE ATTACHED TO IT, THEIR SELF-ESTEEM, THEIR FINANCIAL HEALTH, ANYTHING, IS GOING TO LIKE HIT THE FLOOR WITH IT.

>> YEAH. I THINK IT IS AN UNSTABLE WORLD RIGHT NOW. AND IT IS AN INTERESTING PLACE TO BE. LIKE THE WAY THIS IS WRITTEN TOO. YOU ARE REALLY -- I THINK YOU USED THE WORD RAW. IT IS REALLY RAW. YOU FEEL LIKE YOU ARE TALKING TO US, LIKE YOU ARE THERE.

>> YEAH, THAT IS A GOOD POINT.

>> IT IS VERY COOL. WHAT WRITERS WERE YOU INSPIRED BY?

>> OH, AND I'M NOT COMPARING MYSELF TO THEM AT ALL, BUT MICHAEL HERR WHO WROTE “DISPATCHES” ABOUT BEING IN WAR AND THE STYLE -- I'VE NEVER BEEN ANYWHERE NEAR ARE WAR, BUT I FEEL LIKE HAVING READ THAT BOOK, I HAVE A FEEL FOR WHAT IS GOING THROUGH YOUR HEAD WHILE YOU ARE THERE. OF COURSE HUNTERESS THOMPSON. AND EVEN HERMAN MELVILLE. OKAY, WE'RE ON THE SHIP AND THEN LET ME TELL YOU ALL THIS STUFF ABOUT WHALING HOOKS. AND IT GOES ON AND ON AND SORT OF IGNORING SENTENCE STRUCTURE IN A LOT OF PLACES. AND I LOVE THAT. I FEEL LIKE IF SOMETHING IS WRITTEN IN A PARTICULAR FASHION WHERE -- AND YOU TRUE OF FILMS TOO. IF YOU KNOW WHAT IS COMING NEXT, YOUR BRAIN SORT OF FILLS IN AND YOU ARE NOT ALERT TO WHAT IS COMING NEXT. BUT IF I SEE A FILM THAT IS A PARALLEL UNIVERSE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN NEXT. WHEN THEY GO INTO SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE A RESTAURANT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN THERE. THEY WON'T JUST SIT DOWN AND ORDER FOOD OR ANYTHING. SO I FEEL LIKE BOOKS THAT SORT OF BREAK THAT STRUCTURE A BIT, I FEEL LIKE IS IT MAKES ME SIT UP AND PAY MORE ATTENTION TO WHAT I'M READING. AND SO THAT IS PART OF THE HOPE TOO.

>> IN ADDITION TO THE THEORY AND THE CONCEPT SURROUNDING FAME, YOU REALLY GET PERSONAL. WHEN YOU LOOK BACK AT THE TIME WHEN YOU ROSE TO FAME, WAS THERE IS A MOMENT WHEN YOU THOUGHT, OKAY, I MADE IT, THIS IS THE MOMENT I FEEL LIKE I'M A CELEB -- I'M A CELEBRITY NOW?

>> I THINK THAT CAN ONLY HAPPEN -- NOT ONLY. THE LIKELIHOOD OF THAT HAPPENING IS GREATER IF IT IS SOMETHING THAT YOU SOUGHT FOR A LONG TIME BEFOREHAND. I THINK THAT IS WITH ANYTHING. IF SUDDENLY YOU MEET SOMEONE YOU WANT TO MARRY BUT YOU WEREN'T REALLY LOOKING, IT IS LIKE WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO FOR YOUR WEDDING. GEEZ, I DON'T KNOW. I HAVEN'T REALLY BEEN THINKING ABOUT IT. VERSUS SOMEBODY WHO HAS BEEN PLANNING IT SINCE THEY WERE 13. SO SIMILAR TO THAT. AND I WASN'T LOOKING FOR IT. I HAD NO IDEA I WAS EVEN GOING TO GET INTO ACTING. SO YOU GET INTO THIS BOAT AND YOU ARE KIND OF GOING DOWN THIS RIVER OF FAME. AND THEN SUDDENLY IT JUST TURNS INTO THESE ROARING RAPIDS AND YOU'RE LOOK OH, MY GOD. SO FOR ME AND MOSTLY BECAUSE I WAS SO YOUNG, IT WAS ABOUT MANAGING MYSELF IN IT. AND IT IS JUST COMING TOO FAST AND TOO HARD ALL THE TIME. AND, YEAH -- YEAH.

>> IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU MISS ABOUT THAT TIME?

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW. I HAVE -- I WAS GOING TO SAY, YOU KNOW, PROFESSIONAL OPPORTUNITIES. BUT I HAVE SO MANY GREAT PROFESSIONAL OPPORTUNITIES RIGHT NOW AS A WRITER, DIRECTOR, PRODUCER AND AS AN AUTHOR. THAT I'M SO HAPPY RIGHT NOW WITH EVERYTHING THAT IS HAPPENING. I'VE GOT TWO SHORTS THAT ARE ON AOL PRIME RIGHT NOW, ONE A COMEDY CALLED "FIVE MINUTES" AND THE OTHER A DRAMA CALLED "PUSH." AND I'M ABOUT TO DIRECT A FILM THAT I WROTE CALLED "VIOLET." SO I'M JUST BEYOND. SO, NO, I CAN'T SAY -- I CAN'T SAY THAT THERE IS -- IT IS A REALLY TRIPPY EXPERIENCE. AND THE SUBTITLE OF HIJACKING REALITY, THE POINT OF MAKING IT IS THIS HAPPENS FOR SUCH A SMALL SUBSET OF PEOPLE, BUT IT IS RELATABLE IN THIS SENSE, THAT FOR ALL OF US WE HAVE A CERTAIN REALITY, WHERE WE LIVE, WHAT LANGUAGE WE SPEAK, WHAT JOB WE HAVE, WHO OUR PARENTS ARE, SISTERS, BROTHER, WHATEVER. AND IF ANY ONE OF THOSE ITEMS WERE TO BE REMOVED, IT IS HUGELY TRAUMATIC. BECAUSE IT HAS BECOME PART OF OUR REALITY. AND FOR A TINY SUBSET OF PEOPLE, FAME COMES IN AND SORT OF INUNDATES EVERYTHING. LIKE POURING WATER OVER A DRY FLOWER BED, IT WILL GO INTO EVERYTHING. SO WHEN IT STARTS LEAVING, IT'S GOT SORT OF -- IT TETHERS INTO LOTS OF THINGS ESPECIALLY THINGS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT YOURSELF OR HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT WHERE YOU SIT IN SOCIETY. AND SO WHEN IT STARTS LEAVING, YOU HAVE TO START UNHOOKING THOSE THINGS. AND THAT'S WHAT I CALL POST-FAME. WHEN THE FAME IS GOING AWAY, WHICH ISN'T TALKED ABOUT VERY MUCH. SO I GO INTO HOW I UNHOOKED STUFF, YOU KNOW. AND MAYBE THAT COULD BE THE WAY IN WHICH I DID IT MAYBE CAN BE A HELP FOR OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE NEEDING TO UNHOOK SOMETHING THAT IS LEAVING THEIR REALITY. NO MATTER WHAT IT IS.

>> THAT POST-FAME, WAS THAT SOMETHING THAT WAS CHALLENGING OR A SENSE OF RELIEF?

>> TOTALLY CHALLENGING. AND I KNOW -- AND I SAY IN THE BOOK THAT WILL SAY, OH, POOR BABY, YOU POOR LITTLE RICH BABY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WHICH IS LIKE, FIRST OF ALL, YEAH, JUST BECAUSE YOU WERE ONCE FAMOUS DOESN'T MEAN -- THE MONEY I MADE WHILE DOING "FAMILY TIES" OVER 30 YEARS AGO, I WISH THAT WAS A JOB LIKE A GOVERNMENT JOB WHERE WHEN YOU RETIRE YOU KEEP GETTING THAT CHECK. NO, NO. BUT ANYWAY, I'M NOT COMPLAINING. EVERYTHING IS TERRIFIC. BUT I'M JUST SAYING THERE IS THAT ASSUMPTION. BUT THE POINT I MAKE IN THE BOOK IS WHAT I SPOKE ABOUT JUST BEFORE. IT IS MORE ABOUT THIS THING THAT WAS FOUNDATIONAL TO YOUR REALITY IS BEING YANKED OUT. MAYBE YOUR FATHER LOSES A JOB OR SOMETHING AND THEY GO THAT WE HAVE TO MOVE TO ANOTHER CITY, WE'RE DOWNSIZING, WE'RE GOING TO LIVE IN AN APARTMENT NOW, YOU WILL HAVE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FRIENDS. AND IT IS JUST -- IT IS VERY JARRING AND EVERY TIME I GOT MY SORT OF BUTTONS PUSHED, I WOULD HAVE TO -- MY PROCESS THAT I WRITE ABOUT AND GO FIND OUT WHAT THE ROOT FEAR IS SO THAT I CAN BE IN THAT SIMILAR SITUATION AGAIN, HAVE THE SAME THING SAID AGAIN, BUT HOPEFULLY BY GETTING TO THE ROOT FEAR, HOPEFULLY I'VE REMOVED THE BUTTON. BECAUSE IT WASN'T THAT I WANTED EVERYBODY TO CHANGE THEIR BEHAVIOR AROUND ME, I JUST WANTED TO BECOME BULLETPROOF SO THAT EVERYONE'S BEHAVIOR IS STAYED THE SAME. BUT HE -- I REMOVED MY BUTTONS BY GETTING TO THE ROOT FEAR THAT I WAS FEELING.

>> AND YOUR BROTHER, JASON BATEMAN, WHAT IS HIS PERSPECTIVE?

>> I WON'T SPEAK FOR HIM, BUT I WILL TELL YOU MY -- WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE TO ME. JASON STARTED ACTING A YEAR BEFORE ME AND HAD BECOME A SEMI REGULAR ON “LITTLE HOUSE IN THE PRAIRIE.” AND HE HAD SERIES AFTER SERIES, TV MOVIES, AND WORKED A LOT. BUT I HAPPENED TO GET ON A SHOW THAT WENT STRAIGHT TO THE MOON. TO PUT IT INTO PERSPECTIVE FOR PEOPLE, BECAUSE WE HAD A HIGHLY CONCENTRATED AUDIENCE, WE DIDN'T HAVE 500 CABLE CHANNEL, WE DIDN'T HAVE THE INTERNET IN THE CONSUMER FACING WAY, SO AT OUR HEIGHT WHEN WE HAD UNBEATABLE THURSDAY NIGHT, MUST SEE TV WAS WHERE THAT TERM CAME FROM, WE WOULD HAVE 55 MILLION PEOPLE WATCHING US EVERY NIGHT. AND YOU CAN ONLY GET THOSE NUMBERS WITH THE SUPER BOWL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT NOW. SO THAT IS HOW HIGH THE FAME GOT.

>> BUT WITH JASON, HE DID “ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT” AND ALL THESE GREAT FILMS AND HE WAS DIRECTING HERE AND THERE. AND HE FROM MY PERSPECTIVE HE DID SOMETHING VERY SMART WITH THE SLOW BURN KIND OF FAME THAT HE -- THE WAY IN WHICH HE ATTAINED HIS. HE TOOK THAT FAME CURRENCY AND HE INVESTED IT BACK INTO PROFESSIONALLY. SO HE SET HIMSELF UP WITH DEVELOPMENT DEALS AND THINGS LIKE THIS. AND NOW HE HAS THIS -- I KNOW YOU'VE PROBABLY WATCHED OZARK. HE HAS THIS COMPANY THAT DOES THESE PRODUCTIONS. FOR ME, I HAD OPPORTUNITIES LIKE THAT, BUT I WAS TOO YOUNG -- BECAUSE OF THE FAME, BUT I WAS TOO YOUNG TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS WAS CURRENCY THAT I COULD USE PROFESSIONALLY THAT COULD BE PLANTED AND THEN BE HARVESTED LATER. I DON'T REGRET ANYTHING, BUT JUST TO COMPARE, YOU KNOW, JASON HAS BEEN REALLY, REALLY SMART WITH HIS.

>> IT IS INTERESTING JUST TO SEE THE PERSPECTIVE AND SEEING HOW YOU LOOK AT IT AND WATCHING FROM AFAR AND VICE VERSA I'M SURE. WITH "FAMILY TIES," I WAS ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE TUNING INTO THE SHOW EVERY WEEK. AND THEN THE RERUNS AS WELL. AND THAT IS THE TYPE OF SHOW WHEN I WAS THINKING ABOUT TALKING TO YOU, I WAS THINKING ABOUT THE POLITICAL CLIMATE. BECAUSE THE POLITICAL CLIMATE WAS A REAL DRIVING FORCE WITH ALEX BEING THE REPUBLICAN AND THE REST OF THE FAMILY BEING A BIT MORE LIBERAL. WHAT KIND OF SHOW WOULD THAT BE LIKE NOW IN THE POLITICAL CLIMATE TODAY?

>> WELL, I MEAN MY PERSONAL FEELING ABOUT REBOOTS IS THAT I'M VERY AGAINST IT. I MEAN I FEEL SORT OF BAD FOR THIS GENERATION, I FEEL BAD FOR THE POP CULTURE OF THIS GENERATION BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE THEY ARE GETTING A LOT OF RETREAD, A LOT OF JUST KIND OF -- YOU KNOW, DIGESTED AND VOMITED STUFF FROM OUR TEENS AND 20s AND ALL OF THAT. AND I THINK THAT IS A SHAME. THERE IS A LOT OF NEW STUFF TOO OF COURSE, BUT THERE IS JUST -- I FEEL LIKE THE REBOOTS AND SEQUELS AND EVERYTHING HAS GONE OVERBOARD NOW. AND THEY ARE NOT EVEN REIMAGININGS. AND IT MAKES SENSE THAT THERE WOULD BE A LOT OF COMFORT FOOD PROGRAMMING NOW BECAUSE THINGS FEEL SO INFLUX AND PEOPLE WANT THAT COMFORT, BUT I DON'T THINK IT IS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO. SO I'M 100% AGAINST ANY "FAMILY TIES" REBOOT. BUT IF SOMEBODY DID A NEW SHOW THAT WITHIN A FAMILY HAD CONFLICTING POLITICAL VIEWS, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. BUT FAMILY TIES FOR ME IS STRICTLY 80S. IT WAS VERY SPECIFIC TO THAT TIME. RONALD REAGAN WAS PRESIDENT. YOU KNOW, IT WAS DIFFERENT.

>> I ABSOLUTELY AGREE. AND IT WAS THE TYPE OF THING FOR YOU, I THINK YOU WROTE IT IN YOUR ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS THAT YOU SAID IT WAS LIKE HAPPEN STANCE, THAT YOU WEREN'T EVEN SUPPOSED TO GET THAT AUDITION.

>> OH, YEAH, I HAD AN AGENT TRACY JACOBS WHO WAS AT A BIG TALENT AGENCY. AND SHE HAD JUST COME FROM ADVERTISING. SHE HAD NOTHING TO LOSE. SO THE RULE WAS THE KIDS IN THIS AGENCY HAD TO GO OUT FOR -- THEY HAD TO DO LIKE 15 COMMERCIALS OR SOMETHING BEFORE YOU WOULD SEND THEM OUT ON A THEATRICAL AUDITION, A NONCOMMERCIAL. AND I HAD ONLY DONE TWO COMMERCIALS. SO WITHIN FOUR MONTHS, I HAD DONE TWO COMMERCIALS AND SHE WAS LIKE SCREW IT, SHE SENT ME OUT AND I GOT IT. AND THAT WAS IT.

>> AND YOU WERE JUST THROWN INTO IT. A SENSATION RIGHT AWAY. BACK TO THE FAME THEME. BUT IN YOUR LATE 40s, YOU WENT BACK TO UCLA TO GET YOUR DEGREE. WHAT WAS BEHIND THAT CHOICE?

>> I GOT FAMILY TIES WHEN I WAS 16, SO I COULDN'T GO TO COLLEGE, I HAD TO BE INFORMED OF THIS, I DIDN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND THAT I COULDN'T JUST GO. SO THAT WAS A WHOLE OTHER STORY. BUT I DIDN'T GO THEN. AND THEN I KEPT WORKING A LOT AFTER "FAMILY TIES." AND ANYWAY, SO AT 46, I WOULD SAY FIVE YEARS PRIOR TO THAT, I HAD GOTTEN INTO WRITING AND PRODUCING IN THE DIGITAL SPACE. AND IT JUST FELT LIKE THAT IS WHAT I WAS BORN FOR. AND STILL DO. SO I PUT TOGETHER PROPOSALS AND I WOULD MEET WITH DIFFERENT TECH PEOPLE. AND PUT TOGETHER THE DISTRIBUTION PLAN, ALL THIS SORT OF THING. AND THEN I KEPT HEARING YOU ARE FOUR YEARS AHEAD, AND I WAS LIKE WHAT? LIKE IN 2007, THIS WILL SOUND FUNNY, I WAS GOING AROUND PITCHING FULL LENGTH SHOWS FOR THE INTERNET. AND PEOPLE WERE LIKE YOU'RE CRAZY. NO ONE WILL WATCH MORE THAN THREE MINUTES. AND I WAS LIKE NO, NO, NO, THREE MINUTES IS A TECHNICAL RESTRICTION ON YouTUBE. AND THERE ARE OTHER PLACES THAT WE CAN GO.

>> BUT LONG STORY SHORT, FINALLY I TOOK A MEETING WITH A COMPANY THAT SAID I WANT TO HEAR WHAT SCRIPTS YOU HAVE. AND I STARTED TALKING ABOUT WHAT I WAS INTERESTED IN AT THAT POINT AND THEY WERE LIKE HERE'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR AND THEY STARTED PITCHING TO ME THE THINGS THAT I HAD BEEN PITCHING IN 2007. AND I WAS LIKE OKAY, I CAN'T KEEP DOING THIS. SO I DECIDED LIKE I'M GOING TO GO GET A COMPUTER SCIENCE DEGREE. BECAUSE A LOT OF MY PROJECTS ARE LAYERED. THEY COMBINE TECHNOLOGY AND ENTERTAINMENT. THE ONES THAT ARE COMING AFTER I FINISH THIS FILM, THAT IS THE PLAN. WE'LL SEE IF IT GOES THAT WAY. AND YEAH, SO I THOUGHT, WELL, I'LL JUST GO GET A COMPUTER SCIENCE DEGREE AND CIRCUMNAVIGATE THE SORT OF -- SORT OF PATH I WAS ATTEMPTING AND GET THESE PROJECTS DONE MYSELF. AND THANK GOD I ONLY APPLIED TO ONE SCHOOL, UCLA, THANK GOD I GOT THIS. ANYWAY, I HAD PLAN B AND PLAN C, BUT IT WAS A FANTASTIC EXPERIENCE. THAT WILL BE MY THIRD BOOK.

>> I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU IF YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT OTHER BOOKS.

>> I'M DOING A SECOND BOOK ABOUT HOW WOMEN'S FACES CHANGE IN THE PUBLIC EYE, WOMEN'S FACES GETTING OLDER IN THE PUBLIC EYE AND WHY IT MAKES THE PUBLIC SO ANGRY.

>> OH, WOW.

>> ALSO GETS INTO THIS SORT OF ASSUMED SHAME THAT ANY WOMAN, WHETHER IN THE PUBLIC EYE OR NOT, THAT ANY WOMAN IS ALMOST SUPPOSED TO ADOPT AS THEIR FACES GET OLDER. THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO SORT OF NOT -- SORT OF EYES DOWNCAST AND SORT OF ADAPT A CERTAIN DEGREE OF SHAME. SO ANYWAY, IT WILL BE A DIFFERENT FORMAT THAN THIS BOOK, BUT I'VE BEEN TALKING WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT WOMEN AND GETTING ALL THESE DIFFERENT STORIES. IT GIVES ME CHILLS. IT IS SUCH A GOOD TOPIC. AND I TALK ABOUT IN THE BOOK I'VE BEEN REALLY ATTACKED FOR MY FACE. AND I'M LIKE -- CAN I CUSS ON HERE?

>> YEAH, IT IS THE WEB, YOU KNOW.

>> I'M LIKE -- IT, I ALWAYS WANTED TO LOOK LIKE THIS, I ALWAYS WANTED TO HAVE LIKE LINES HERE, AND LIKE SKIN SORT OF LIKE MY NECK IS GETTING LIKE LOOSE SKIN LIKE HERE AND STUFF. AND I ALWAYS WANT THAT HAD  -- I WANTED THAT. NO OFFENSE TO PEOPLE WITH SMOOTH SKIN, BUT I THINK THIS IS SO MUCH MORE INTERESTING. IF YOU SEE MY FACE, YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'LL GET. I DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THE TIME TO LIKE INFORM YOU THAT I'M INTERESTING AND COMPLEX. LIKE YOU KNOW WHEN I STAND IN FRONT OF YOU, I'M INTERESTING AND COMPLEX, AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT I TELL MYSELF. SO DON'T TELL ME OTHERWISE.

>> NO, I LOVE IT. I LOVE THIS CONCEPT BECAUSE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT KEEPS COMING UP IN HOLLYWOOD AND WOMEN AND LIKE THE PRESSURE THAT MANY WOMEN IN HOLLYWOOD AND EVERYONE FACES.

>> YEAH, LIKE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO FEEL BAD IF YOUR FACE LOOKS OLDER. AND IF YOU DO PLASTIC SURGERY, YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO FEEL BAD THAT YOU GOT THE PLASTIC SURGERY. THE WHOLE THING IS JUST -- UP. AND THE THIRD ONE WILL BE ABOUT THE COLLEGE EXPERIENCE.

>> THIS IS GOOD STUFF. HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO WRITE THIS AND DO YOU THINK IT WILL THAT THAT LONG FOR THE SECOND BOOK?

>> FOR ME, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS THE SAME FOR OTHER PEOPLE, BUT WHEN I MAKE SOMETHING, LIKE I USED TO MAKE A LOT OF COLLAGES JUST FOR FUN OR WHENEVER I WRITE, I LET THINGS BAKE FOR A WHILE AND THEN WHEN THEY ARE READY TO COME OUT OF THE OVEN, THEN I CAN WRITE IT REALLY QUICKLY. SO I TAKE A LOT OF NOTES, THINK ABOUT IT, THINK ABOUT IT, THINK ABOUT IT. SO THIS ONE, I STARTED TAKING NOTES LET'S SAY LIKE TWO YEARS, BUT I WAS GOING TO SCHOOL AT THE TIME. SO I COULDN'T WORK ON IT DURING SCHOOL YEAR, ONLY DURING THE SUMMERS. AND JUST A LITTLE BIT. BUT I WOULD TAKE NOTES. I WOULD MAKE NOTES, MAKE NOTES, MAKE NOTES. AND WHEN I GRADUATED IN 2016, TOOK ME A FEW MONTHS TO WRITE AN ACADEMIC VERSION WHICH IS WHAT I STARTED WRITING. AND THEN I REALIZED IT NEEDED  -- REALIZED THAT IT NEEDED TO BE A DIFFERENT STYLE. AND THAT TOOK ME THREE WEEKS. I DID NOTHING BUT WRITE FOR THREE WEEKS. SO I GIVE YOU THE LONG ANSWER BECAUSE I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO GO LIKE OH, SHE POPPED THIS OFF IN THREE WEEKS. YEAH, BUT I REALLY WORKED ON IT FOR LIKE TWO YEARS. AND THEN WHEN IT WAS TIME TO TAKE IT OUT OF THE OVEN, IT TOOK THREE WEEKS TO GET IT ON TO THE TABLE.

>> AND IT HAS GOTTEN A LOT OF PRAISE. MICHAEL J. FOX GAVE YOU A THUMBS UP. YOU STILL STAY IN TOUCH WITH THAT CAST.

>> YEAH. A LOT OF GREAT NAMES. AND I HAVE SOME BEAUTIFUL BLURBS FROM PEOPLE. AND LIKE MARY LOUISE PARKER HAS A BOOK CALLED DEAR MR. YOU. IT GIVES ME CHILLS. HER WRITING IS SO BEAUTIFUL. IT IS NOT COMMON THAT SOMEBODY WHO IS THAT GOOD AT ONE THING WILL BE THAT GOOD AT SOMETHING ELSE. SO I ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO GET DEAR MR. YOU. SHE WROTE A BEAUTIFUL BLURB TOO.

>> ALL RIGHT. LET'S GET TO THE QUESTIONS FROM THE CROWD. RIGHT HERE ABOUT THAT.

>> A BIG FAN FROM YOUR "FAMILY TIES" DAYS AND ONWARD. I WANTED TO ASK YOU, DO YOU COVER IN YOUR BACK THE TRAJECTORY OF FAME WITH YOUR "FAMILY TIES" CO-STARS? SOME WENT ON LIKE MICHAEL J. FOX WENT ON TO TREMENDOUS FAME AND OTHERS WENT ON TO DIFFERENT TYPE OF WORK.

>> I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I DON'T GET INTO THAT VERY SPECIFICALLY, BUT I DO TOUCH ON THE FACT THAT IT WAS GREAT TO HAVE MICHAEL THERE AT THE SAME TIME BECAUSE HIS FAME -- IT WAS HAPPENING AT THE SAME TIME, BUT HIS FAME WAS ALWAYS BIGGER THAN MINE. AND SO IT WAS NICE TO HAVE A SORT OF MENTOR. WHETHER HE KNEW IT OR NOT, LIKE A FAME MENTOR FOR ME. AND NO MATTER HOW BAD IT GOT FOR ME LIKE YOU'RE MOBBED IN A MALL OR SOMETHING, I'D ALWAYS TELL MYSELF MIKE'S GOT IT WORSE.

>> THANKS FOR THAT QUESTION. WHO IS NEXT? RIGHT THERE.

>> HI. I WAS WONDERING WHAT MOMENT, IF ANY, FOR YOU DID YOU REALIZE LIKE IN POP CULTURE DID YOU REALIZE THAT FAME WAS KIND OF THIS CONCEPT OF FAME AND, YOU KNOW, HOW IT AFFECTS CELEBRITIES HAD SPIRALED OUT OF CONTROL.

>> I THINK IT WAS AROUND 2000 WHERE I SAW IT HAPPENING. LIKE I SAID, WHEN I WAS VERY FAMOUS, THOUGH THE FAME WAS VERY HIGH AND VERY STRONG, THERE WEREN'T THAT MANY OUTLETS. I BREAK DOWN THE WHOLE THING, BUT THERE WAS LIKE “ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT,” “ACCESS HOLLYWOOD,” WE HAD THE SHOWBIZ MINUTE ON CNN THAT REALLY WAS A MINUTE. WE DIDN'T HAVE E!. SO NO 24 HOURS OF ENTERTAINMENT. AND WE HAD FAR FEWER MAGAZINES THAT COVERED THIS SORT OF THING. AND NOT A CONSUMER FACING INTERNET REALLY. SO THERE WEREN'T THAT MANY OUTLETS FOR IT. AND I THINK AROUND 2000 WHEN YOU HAD SO MANY MORE OUTLET, THEY NEEDED TO FILL THE PAGES. THERE WERE ONLY SO MANY FAMOUS ACTORS OR MUSICIANS. IT STARTED THERE AND REALITY SHOWS STARTED THERE TOO. SO EVERYBODY WAS LIKE OH, GREAT, WE CAN PUT LIKE SOMEBODY HAS HAD EIGHT KIDS ON THE COVER BECAUSE WE CAN'T GET A FAMOUS ACTOR OR WHATEVER. AND SO THAT STARTED THERE. AND THEN THERE WAS NO PUTTING THE CAT BACK IN THE BAG OR WHATEVER THE TERM IS.

>> NO GOING BACK.

>> NO GOING BACK. AND THEN SOCIAL MEDIA THEN HAS MADE IT EVEN STRONGER. BUT MY HOPE IS WHEN PEOPLE READ THE BOOK THAT -- I HOPE PEOPLE CAN START -- BECAUSE IT IS AN INDIVIDUAL THING HOW YOU WILL FEEL ABOUT FAME. AND I HOPE THAT PEOPLE CAN START -- THANKS FOR THAT QUESTION. I HOPE PEOPLE CAN START PUTTING IT BACK IN PERSPECTIVE FOR THEMSELVES, YOU KNOW. LIKE RAINN WILSON WAS TELLING ME THIS GOOD ANALOGY. YOU THINK ABOUT PEOPLE BEING FAMOUS. THERE IS A LOT OF PARTICIPANTS IN THAT. IT IS NOT THE PERSON THEMSELVES, YOU KNOW, SAYING I'M FAMOUS. IT IS EVERYONE REACTING TO IT, RIGHT? SO HE WAS TELLING ME WHEN HE HAD HIS SHAKESPEARIAN STUDIES IN THEATER SCHOOL AND WHEN IT CAME TIME TO PLAY KING, THE STUDENTS ASKED THE PROFESSOR, WELL, WHAT DO WE DO HERE? DO WE STAND MORE REGALLY OR NOT PAY ATTENTION TO PEOPLE. AND HE GOES IT IS -- YOU DO NOTHING. IT IS ALL ABOUT WHAT THE OTHER PEOPLE ARE DOING AROUND YOU. AND SO IF WE AS PARTICIPANTS IN THIS FAME -- IT IS ONE THING TO LIKE ADMIRE SOMEBODY'S WORK. TO ME THAT IS A SEPARATE KIND OF FAME. IF PAUL THOMAS ANDERSON CAME IN RIGHT NOW, I'D BE LIKE WOW, THIS IS REALLY RAD, I LOVE HIS WORK SO MUCH. TO ME THAT IS LIKE MY SPIRIT RECOGNIZING SOMETHING THAT MOVED ME. BUT THE FRENZIED SOMETHING OF SOMEBODY WALKS IN WHOSE WORK I DON'T THINK ABOUT BUT THEY ARE STILL FAMOUS AND IT WILL CHANGE THE TEMPERATURE IN THIS ROOM, THAT KIND OF FAME I HOPE WE CAN START PUTTING IN PERSPECTIVE AND REALLY VALUING OURSELVES AGAIN. LIKE THE JEFFREY OWENS STORY RECENTLY OF PEOPLE TRYING TO SHAME HIM BECAUSE HE HAD A JOB AT TRADER JOE'S. HERE IS THIS INTELLIGENT TALENTED MAN, HAPPENS TO HAVE THIS JOB WHICH FRANKLY WILL MAKE HIM A BETTER ACTOR, THE MORE EXPERIENCE YOU HAVE WITH ANYTHING. AND TO SHAME HIM FOR THAT, IT REALLY TOUCHED A NERVE WITH THE PUBLIC. I THINK PEOPLE WERE PRETTY OUTRAGED THAT OTHER PEOPLE WERE TRYING TO MOCK HIM FOR THAT. I HOPE WE CAN GO BACK TO THAT. I FEEL LIKE WE HAD THAT PRIOR TO 2000. I HOPE THAT WE CAN APPRECIATE OURSELVES AND APPRECIATE EACH OTHER MORE REGARDLESS OF HOW MANY GOD DAMN FOLLOWERS WE HAVE.

>> I THINK THAT IS A GREAT PLACE TO END THIS INTERVIEW AND CHAT. AND THANKS FOR THAT GREAT QUESTION. THE BOOK IS OUT NOW. JUSTINE BATEMAN! GIVE IT UP ONE MORE TIME.

Danny DeVito

If this picture doesn't give it away, we have no problem stating how much of a good time we had sitting down and chopping it up with the one and only Danny DeVito. 😂 Check out our talk!

(Photo Credit: Noam Galai /BUILD )

Jack Dylan Grazer, Zachary Levi, Asher Angel & Mark Strong

One word comes to mind: Shazam! ⚡️ From what it was like on-set to what Marvel character they'd like to face off against, do not miss our awesome chat with the cast of the highly-anticipated DC movie, "Shazam!"

(Photo Credit: Noam Galai /BUILD )

Calum Worthy & Joey King

The young and talented actors Joey King and Calum Worthy discussed their experience filming the new fascinating Hulu anthology series, "The Act." Be sure to tune in! (Photo Credit: Jammi York /BUILD )

Andy Black

Andy Black took us for a deep dive conversation! He told us all about what inspired his latest and most personal LP, "The Ghost of Ohio."  (Photo Credit: Mike Pont /BUILD )

Cassie Randolph & Colton Underwood

Love is in the air and it's looking good! 🥰😩 Colton Underwood and his new girlfriend, Cassie Randolph, came by the studio and reflected on their rollercoaster of a ride on "The Bachelor." Don't miss it! (Photo Credit: Jammi York /BUILD )

Ryan Destiny

There's a reason why Ryan Destiny is on a show by the name of "STAR!" 🤩 Find out what the talented musician/actress had to say about working on the FOX series and what's next for her. (Photo Credit: Jammi York /BUILD )

James Kent & Keira Knightley

The queen of period pieces was among us! 🙇‍♂️ Keira Knightley and director James Kent took the BUILD stage to discuss their new film, "The Aftermath." (Photo Credit: Mike Pont /BUILD )

Andrew Rannells

No lie, Andrew Rannells is as sweet as he looks! So, needless to say, it was a pleasure to sit down and chat with him about his new memoir, "Too Much Is Not Enough." Watch! (Photo Credit: Noam Galai /BUILD )

Cole Sprouse & Haley Lu Richardson

Hands down two of the best and most young actors working today! 🙌 Don't miss our talk with Cole Delbyck and Haley Lu Richardson about "Five Feet Apart," their touching new film. (Photo Credit: Mike Pont /BUILD )

Hoda Kotb

To know her is to love her and we at BUILD are no exception! 😍 The great Hoda Kotb gave us all the details behind her adorable new children's book, "You Are My Happy." (Photo Credit: Noam Galai /BUILD )

Raz-B, Omarion, J-Boog & Fizz of B2K

They still got it! 😎 From working with Diddy on their timeless hit, "Bump, Bump, Bump," to what it was like reuniting, the iconic boy group B2K had us both reminiscing about the 2000s and excited to see what 2019 has in store. Tune in! (Photo Credit: Noam Galai /BUILD )

Bellamy Young

No better guest to have spent International Women's Day with than the genuinely lovely Bellamy Young. Tune in to our talk with her about her work with CARE, her time on "Scandal" and more. She also joined us for an insightful women's panel that you HAVE to watch. (Photo Credit: Mike Pont /BUILD )

New Kids on the Block

Nobody else we'd rather hang tough with than the New Kids on the Block. 😎 From their first impressions of each other to their favorite boy bands, don't miss the blast we had chatting it up with Donnie, Danny, Joey, Jordan and Jonathan. (Photo Credit: Noam Galai /BUILD )

BeBe Zahara Benet & Alexis Michelle

At BUILD we 💖 drag, so we obviously jumped at the chance to sit down and chat with Alexis Michelle and BeBe Zahara Benet! Hear all about the crazy, fun time they had filming their TLC special, "Drag Me Down the Aisle." (Photo Credit: Jammi York /BUILD )

Ricky Whittle

"American Gods" is back for season 2 on STARZ and who better to talk about it with than series lead, Ricky Whittle. From his regiment to play the bulky Shadow Moon to what it's like behind-the-scenes, he gave us all the details. (Photo Credit: Jammi York /BUILD )

Tal Wilkenfeld

When you got it, you got it and trust us when we say Tal Wilkenfeld has got IT! 🤩 Be sure to check out her stellar performance and our great talk with the budding young artist about her debut album, "Love Remains." (Photo Credit: Jammi York /BUILD )

Derrick Baskin

If you love The Temptations, which everyone does of course, then you'll love our chat with this swell guy! Derrick Baskin, star of "Ain't Too Proud," told us all about the new musical. (Photo Credit: Mike Pont /BUILD )

Britt Robertson

Britt Robertson and the Shondaland series, "For the People," are back on ABC for season 2! Find out how the legal drama has changed the actress' view of the world. (Photo Credit: Mike Pont /BUILD )

Allen Kovac & Nikki Sixx

It's not every day we have a music legend like Nikki Sixx in the studio! 🤘 Check out our talk with him and co-producer Allen Kovac about the candid Netflix biopic of his iconic band, Mötley Crüe. (Photo Credit: Mike Pont /BUILD )

Lacey Chabert

Lacey Chabert let us sit with her! 😌​​​​​​ Hear what draws the actress to certain projects and if she'd be up for reprising the role of Gretchen Wieners in a "Mean Girls" reunion. (Photo Credit: Jammi York /BUILD )

Shannon Coffey, Chantal Rochelle & Kevan Kenney

It's that time of the week...#NewMusicFriday! And who better to break down all the new releases of the week than our music experts. Hear what they had to say! (Photo Credit: Mike Pont /BUILD )

Gregg Araki, Kelli Berglund, Avan Jogia & Karley Sciortino

Quite the stylish bunch! 😎 Gregg Araki, Kelli Berglund, Avan Jogia and Karley Sciortino, the people behind STARZ's "Now Apocalypse," sat down to discuss the new show. Watch!

(Photo Credit: Mike Pont /BUILD )

J.K. Simmons

Always a pleasure to have the talented class act J.K. Simmons stop by the studio. We talked with him about his new film, "I'm Not Here," and more. (Photo Credit: Mike Pont /BUILD )

Nina Dobrev

STOP! ✋ And take this time to check out our chat with the beautiful Nina Dobrev about her new CBS sitcom, "FAM." You won't regret it. 😎 (Photo Credit: Jammi York /BUILD )

Kyle Cooke, Amanda Batula, Carl Radke, Lindsay Hubbard, Danielle Olivera, Hannah Berner, Paige DeSorbo and Jordan Verroi

It may be winter but the "Summer House" cast brought the heat! 🔥 Check out our chat with the stars of the Bravo reality series to find out what fun and drama you can expect from the newest season. (Photo Credit: Jammi York /BUILD )

AJ Michalka & Patton Oswalt

Backstage crossover! 🤩 "The Goldbergs" alumni stopped by to chat about their latest comedies. AJ Michalka gave us details about the new series "Schooled" and Patton Oswalt told us what to expect in season 2 of "A.P. Bio." (Photo Credit: Noam Galai /BUILD )

Chiwetel Ejiofor

We obviously know how great of an actor Chiwetel Ejiofor is in front of the camera but now we get to see his work behind one. Hear all about Ejiofor's directorial debut in the new Netflix Original film, "The Boy Who Harnessed the Wind." (Photo Credit: Noam Galai /BUILD )

Harry Shum Jr., Matthew Daddario, Emeraude Toubia & Katherine McNamara

What a beautiful grouping of people 😍...and we're going to miss them! 😭 The final season of "Shadowhunters" is upon us and we had the pleasure of chatting with the cast of the beloved series. (Photo Credit: Jammi York /BUILD )

Rome Flynn

Rome Flynn is a busy man! Not only has he starred in this season of ABC's hit show, "How to Get Away with Murder," but you can also catch him in Tyler Perry's last Madea movie. Tune in to our talk with him. (Photo Credit: Jammi York /BUILD )

The Season 11 Queens of "RuPaul's Drag Race"

Too much slayage in one photo! 😩 From woke words about representation to shady moments about other queens, you absolutely DO NOT want to miss our Monét X Change hosted-chat with the fabulous bunch of "RuPaul's Drag Race" season 11. (Photo Credit: Noam Galai & Mike Pont /BUILD )

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